Safe Room Interview of A.S.

Michael Travesser / Wayne Bent at sunset

Safe Room Interview of A.S. with Kat Duff 28:17

Kat Duff: They tell me just the kind of questions to ask.

A.S: Oh ok.

Kat Duff: I ask lots of questions they don’t tell me to. Cause I like to just get a feel for what someone life is like, what’s important to them, you know, if they’re happy if they’re sad, you know all those kinds of things. (They discuss A.S.’s interest in music that she’s the artistic one in the family and how she likes to sing.)

Kat Duff: So you live with your mom and your dad in Clayton, now right? (She says the name of the street)

A.S: Yep.

Kat Duff: And how long have you guys lived there?

A.S: Actually, I’ve only lived with them a year that’s when it all changed.

Kat Duff: So then how come you weren’t living with them for about a year?

A.S: I moved off the property where my sister lived.

Kat Duff: Oh!

A.S: Actually it’s been almost … almost a year.

Kat Duff: That you’ve been off property?

A.S: (Something about being at her uncle’s for about three months)

Kat Duff: Yeah yeah. So then did you, before you moved to your uncle’s did you live on the property all your life?

A.S: Not there but you know I was in the church all my life.

Kat Duff: Ok, you’re in the church …

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: And so you guys, the church came from … Montana or something?

A.S: We came from, actually a lot of the people; we were all kind of spread out …

Kat Duff: All over the country.

A.S: Yeah. (She tells about living in Idaho)

Kat Duff: Idaho, I knew it was one of those up there. (A brief discussion about Idaho and coming from there)

Kat Duff: And so when you were younger you and your family, would that be your mom, your dad and your sister too?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: You’d all go up for the summers to Idaho and you had a compound up there?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: And in the winters you guys would go down, was there another compound down in Arizona?

A.S: No,

Kat Duff: No? Ok.

A.S: No we just did the palm trees.

Kat Duff: Sounds like it, neat. So then it sounds like your mom and dad left the land before you did?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: And how was that for you?

A.S: Ah … it was hard, I guess.

Kat Duff: Yeah (said with compassion)

A.S: I don’t know I really liked being with my parents you know.

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: Cause they’re just … sweet.

Kat Duff: Yeah, they’re sweet huh?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: So then did they want you to come with them?

A.S: Oh yeah.

Kat Duff: Oh but you’re the one that decided to stay, for a year?

A.S: Yeah and they just let us, you know.

Kat Duff: Ok, so it was your choice, huh?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: And how was that year when you were there without your parents?

A.S: Ah … what … the year?

Kat Duff: The year, I’m thinking about the year when you were at the compound and your parents had left you, and you were still there.

A.S: Oh … oh, how was it?

Kat Duff: Yeah.

A.S: Hum … it was … hard. (Sounds sad)

Kat Duff: Yeah?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: What was hard about it?

A.S: Hum … just ah … I’m not sure. It was hard, I mean physically it was like … like … (Takes awhile to express) It’s more that … like if you’re not good enough, then he’ll like rat on you. That’s what if feels like. You have to be good and stuff like that.

Kat Duff: Um hum, um hum. So the land’s on you if you’re not good?

A.S: Eh … eh … (not sure what she says)

Kat Duff: Michael, Michael ok?

A.S: He didn’t really like rat on you but like, just you know he’ll decide you know, well like for instance tell us ... some of the girls, we’ll all hang out, laughing, make noise and whatever …

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: Or just groups like or older people, you know, and then like, he’ll like ... we’re supposed to, kinda put everybody on this guilty, like it was bad, you know. It was bad to you. You were making noise and you’re really supposed to be quiet and pray and all that. So it was hard. This is like, you’re always afraid that something bad was after you, you know.

Kat Duff: Yeah. Like someone was always watching you and finding things wrong with you?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Telling everybody else you were wrong? And the posts, everybody reads the posts, right?

A.S: Oh yeah.

Kat Duff: So they’d all know? Everybody would mention things.

A.S: Yeah. Sometimes we don’t put names but you’d all know, everyone would know who they were talking about.

Kat Duff: Yeah, yeah.

A.S: Cause it’s pretty easy, cause everybody knows …

Kat Duff: Uh huh. Oh that sounds hard.

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Yeah … and ah what else was it like out there on the land?

A.S: It was a lot of fun, like I spent most my time actually walking.

Kat Duff: Oh, uh huh.

A.S: I got to a point where I just started not reading the posts because I was down, feeling this guilty and, always like, just that feeling, you know just being down with it. I didn’t, not too long, I left you know.

Kat Duff: Ok.

A.S: Because there was this … I was just getting down with it. It was just getting too much.

Kat Duff: Yeah.

A.S: And I was feeling really pressured and everything.

Kat Duff: Was somebody pressuring you?

A.S: No …

Kat Duff: It was more inside?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Um hum. Tell me more about Michael. I know he’s the leader and he writes the posts.

A.S: Uh huh.

Kat Duff: And he makes sermons too? I guess the sermons become the posts? Is that how it goes, or what?

A.S: Sometimes, sometimes he’ll just like write things …

Kat Duff: Oh yeah?

A.S: Or whatever.

Kat Duff: So tell me about him, what’s he like?

A.S: Ah … he’s nice I mean he’s not mean or anything.

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: He’s all … (not sure exactly how she describes him)

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: Honestly he’s like … I don’t know, one of our friends, she’s out and she says … He’s got the power of suggestion, you know. He suggests something and, everybody feels like they have to do it, you know whether or not … be lost or whatever.

Kat Duff: Ok, uh huh. So then you said something about a friend that was out?

A.S: Yeah. Prudence.

Kat Duff: Prudence, ok.

A.S: She was a real … she was a long timer. (Something about Prudence being there a long time and that A.S. did not really know her that well.)

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: I tried to get my own way.

Kat Duff: Yeah that makes sense.

A.S: Cause it’s hard, the people in Clayton, everybody knows you and they kinda look down on you because you’re out there, you know. And I was like, I don’t even know you.

Kat Duff: Yeah, yeah. So this power of suggestion that Michael has, how does that work?

A.S: Well … it’s hard to explain, like, sometimes … sometimes, I don’t know, like ah … it’s hard to explain how …

Kat Duff: He’d make things happen or not happen?

A.S: Pretty much.

Kat Duff: Oh really.

A.S: Well like the seven that he appointed.

Kat Duff: Yeah, tell me about the seven he appointed.

A.S: Well like, he’ll like suggest that, you know, he’ll be like well, I’m talking to God, you know, talking to me, he’s saying he needs a seven you know, and so ten of us girls, one of them was a boy actually.

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: And never really really connected with God we were closed, you know.

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: And so I was one of them and my sister was one of them.

Kat Duff: Uh huh. And so you got one of those letters?

A.S: Yeah. And so he said he’d pick ten of us but there’re only gonna be seven, he said to the girls. We were all in a meeting, he said to us all we were the seven you know, and so there was seven of us that came back and told him.

Kat Duff: Uh huh, ok.

A.S: And then, everybody … um … like somehow it then came up you know, like he said you know that we’d be intimate. We’d … each you know, (more is said that I cannot quite understand) and ah … somehow one of the girls, one of the girls was like hanging on him to lay naked with her …

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: And so … she did. (She says this quietly)

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: And you know all of us girls decided you know, we’d all have needs and everything like share each other what goes on you know.

Kat Duff: Yeah.

A.S: And so when she told us all about it and everything and how sweet it was and how it had really helped her … and everything.

Kat Duff: Ah … 40:01

A.S: And so like everybody else wanted it too … cause it was like, something good.

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: Oh then everybody did it, but he, like he wouldn’t touch anyone, he wouldn’t touch you sexually, just lie naked.

Kat Duff: Uh huh, uh huh, uh huh. So ah, you got one of those letters right and then you went off and knew that you were to be one of the seven, right?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Uh huh. And how did you know?

A.S: Ah … Just (I cannot understand her answer)

Kat Duff: Ok. And so then this other girl was the first one and then she came back and told you?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: And ah … who is she?

A.S: Ah … I gotta think … there’s like ah … it was Esther. I think that was the first person.

Kat Duff: Esther.

A.S: Yeah. Everybody calls her Esther out there.

Kat Duff: Ok. And when she came back and told you all about it, what did she tell you?

A.S: Uhm … ah she, I really don’t know anything, much.

Kat Duff: That’s ok, if you don’t remember …

A.S: I think I’m really like trying to forget it all, you know. It’s been awhile.

Kat Duff: Yeah.

A.S: But she ah … let’s see, she … ewe she would … She was explaining how she really felt about when she laid naked. Like she had given herself to God, you know. So she just really felt that but she wasn’t actually feeling like actually getting naked. She was feeling like getting naked.

Kat Duff: You mean without anything between her and God, that kind of naked?

A.S: Yeah, yeah.

Kat Duff: Rather than naked, like being sexual?

A.S: Yeah with all her clothes off.

Kat Duff: Yeah ok.

A.S: Like him practically you know, to everything, like …

Kat Duff: Ok, now I understand.

A.S: So she went over there and she let … you know, she told him, you know, he’s like, he didn’t partly understand what she was meaning, I mean, “do you want to take your clothes off?” And she’s like, well no but, yeah, she’s like well … She wasn’t thinking about that but then when she thought about it she was like, yeah, I wanna do this you know.

Kat Duff: Yeah, yeah. Uh huh.

A.S: So you know, she did it, she just stripped right there and so … he didn’t know what to do. He was like alright. (She is amused as she tells this)

Kat Duff: Uh huh, uh huh.

A.S: And then he took her back to the bed. She laid on the bed and he held her for awhile, talking.

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: That was the first one. And then she just explained how wonderful and how it was like her anchor how it really helped her, you know.

Kat Duff: Yeah. So then …that vulnerability in being there with him gave her an anchor? Did it make her more stable or something?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Ok.

A.S: She felt like she was closer to God.

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: And so we all, you know, not real hard, but you know but if we’re gonna get closer to God and we’re gonna somehow feel better and like be a better person.

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: The thing is, I didn’t feel anything different.

Kat Duff: Oh really?

A.S: No. Like when I didn’t have to get close to God, you know. I didn’t really know to do it.

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: I did but I didn’t really want to, just because, you know, he said you know, I was getting closer to God …

Kat Duff: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when you did it how old were you?

A.S: I was sixteen; I was actually on my birthday.

Kat Duff: Oh my God, on your birthday, uh huh. So, let’s go through that whole day cause it sounds like it was kind of an important day.

A.S: Yeah it was.

Kat Duff: Yeah, yeah.

A.S: Well, like … of course I was hearing everybody else and like I wasn’t one of them. I was one of the last ones.

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: It was me and another girl.

Kat Duff: Uh huh. Ok.

A.S: And so well I didn’t know about, being fifteen was like, alright you know, sixteen was a little bit older and I kinda wanted to do it on my birthday.

Kat Duff: Uh huh uh huh.

A.S: And so, I thought well for some reason it was just something special, really something special on my birthday.

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: So you know I went there and I talked to him and I told them about it. He asked me if I … Is that really what you want?

Kat Duff: Uh uhm.

A.S: And I was like well … He’s like you know you don’t have to. I’m not pressuring you to do this. You don’t have to do this.

Kat Duff: Uh uhm.

A.S: I was like well, but I want to, you know.

Kat Duff: Uh uhm.

A.S: And so … and so … he said, “well ok.” I wanted to get on with it. And I went into his room and he was in the other room until he came in and laid on the bed. I was like really nervous cause I don’t really like people to see me naked cause I was scared of it.

Kat Duff: Yeah I know what you mean.

A.S: And so that was why I kinda really didn’t want to you know …

Kat Duff: Yeah.

A.S: So, then … so then, he came in and I got next to him and he’s like well do you want a blanket, you know to cover up with a blanket? I was like, sure, sure.

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: So he put a blanket over me and he just held me there for awhile and he kissed me and everything

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: And then he went out and he got dressed and then left.

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: And that was all. It was probably a half an hour or an hour, something like that.

Kat Duff: And you said it was at his place, right?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: And does anyone else live at his place, or was anyone else in there?

A.S: No, he lives by himself.

Kat Duff: Ok. And so he gave you a blanket.

A.S: Uh hum.

Kat Duff: And then he laid down and held you, was he underneath the blanket or on top of the blanket? 47:54

A.S: Ah he was on top, we were both on top.

Kat Duff: Oh you were both on top?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Ok, ok. And ah, was he wearing his clothes?

A.S: Yeah. He was wearing (do not understand her.)

Kat Duff: Yeah.

A.S: I did … I really … that was the first time I actually was ever seen me naked.

Kat Duff: Yeah … her response is not clear.

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Yeah, yeah. And when he held you, how did he hold you? Did he put like an arm underneath you or what did he do?

A.S: Yea, he kinda, well he was kinda beside me, you know on the side, sort of over me.

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: Kinda like that (she seems to show Kat Duff) he wasn’t on top of me or anything.

Kat Duff: Uh huh, uh huh. Did anything ever touch your breasts?

A.S: Ah he kissed them.

Kat Duff: Oh, uh huh.

A.S: I don’t think he like touched them with his hands or anything.

Kat Duff: Yeah, yeah. Did he kiss you anywhere else?

A.S: Ah, he kissed me on the lips and some other places. I’m not sure; he kissed me a couple of times in places.

Kat Duff: Uh huh, uh huh. On your face, on your breasts?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Uh huh. And did he say anything to you when he was holding you and kissing you?

A.S: Yeah actually quite a bit.

Kat Duff: Uh huh, what...

A.S: Ah … uhm, I can’t remember. Like I sorta remember … but not really.

Kat Duff: Uh hum, uh hum. Do you remember what kinds of things he was talking about? Like was he talking about God or about you, or?

A.S: Ah, he’s just talking about me and I was telling him how nervous I was you know, to lay naked.

Kat Duff: Yeah.

A.S: He said, well … he said that, that I didn’t have to be you know.

Kat Duff: Uh hum.

A.S: It’s a natural thing, everybody, everybody did it.

Kat Duff: It’s true. Yeah true, yeah.

A.S: I don’t really remember very many details …

Kat Duff: Did he … did you ever have anything to eat or drink with him then?

A.S: Ah … ah … I might have had some water. I don’t really remember.

Kat Duff: Uh hum. Is it … you said it lasted only about a half an hour, did you ever like fall asleep and wake up?

A.S: No, I was awake the whole time.

Kat Duff: You were awake the whole time. Ok.

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Ok. And afterwards, you said about a half hour and he got up and then what happened?

A.S: Ah he got up, he got dressed, and then I left.

Kat Duff: Uh hum.

A.S: I mean I got dressed.

Kat Duff: Yeah. Did he kiss you at all on your stomach?

A.S: Ah … ah … I don’t think he kissed me on the stomach. (All of a sudden there is some music playing and it is impossible to hear anything they are saying. Finally the music gets turned off.)

Kat Duff: He kissed you on your face, and your neck …

A.S: (She says something about her belly button.) He has this zapper and like you zap em and it helps them and he zapped them, but I don’t think he kissed me at all. (She is speaking about bug bites but I don’t exactly hear those words.)

Kat Duff: And how bout your private areas was he kissing or touching you or zapping you there?

A.S: No.

Kat Duff: Uh hum. A.S: There was nothing there. 52:28

Kat Duff: Ok okedoke. And then you mentioned that you felt, that you didn’t feel anything afterwards. Right? You said that it was kinda depressing that you didn’t feel anything like the other girls did?

A.S: Yeah, like it didn’t … it wasn’t so wonderful like I thought it was gonna be.

Kat Duff: Yeah, yeah.

A.S: It was but yet it was like I didn’t feel any closer to God.

Kat Duff: Yeah, it just was.

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Yeah.

A.S: In fact I think he made it, it wasn’t so good. After all his ah ... because ah … I felt kind of like, well everybody talked about consummating.

Kat Duff: Oh, uh huh.

A.S: Having sex with him.

Kat Duff: Uh huh, uh huh.

A.S: All the girls wanted it, you know.

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: Of course, you know … (I think she says something like that’ was gonna be a problem with me too, you know.)

Kat Duff: Oh …

A.S: I guess I kinda didn’t go so good with me because I felt kinda suicidal.

Kat Duff: Oh.

A.S: And that’s why he said you know … because he said he wasn’t going to do that and so …

Kat Duff: He wasn’t going to do what ?

A.S: He wasn’t going to have people kill themselves up here. If you want to kill yourself you can go out there.

Kat Duff: Oh, so he sent you off the land?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Oh. So you told him you were feeling suicidal?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Oh, ok. And that was his response?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Ok.

A.S: Well like his first response was you know he said that people that are suicidal are cowards you know.

Kat Duff: Oh.

A.S: Suicidal is coward you know, and he tried to help me you know, and I’d feel better for a few minutes, you know and whatever and I couldn’t recover …

Kat Duff: Yeah, yeah.

A.S: And the next day it was … right back. And so well then an incident came up and it really started like I was just crying like nobody could help me.

Kat Duff: Ok.

A.S: I was like I felt like I was going crazy and so … none of the girls could help me or nothing. I didn’t want nobody to help me plus I didn’t feel like anybody could.

Kat Duff: Yeah, yeah, I can understand that.

A.S: And so, and so then I ah … so then you know Michael’s like wow I wanna talk to you, and so I went inside his house and talked to him and you know he … he ah, and I told him that I was feeling suicidal and he’s like well are you going … will you try something here … and I said, “well yeah.” And he’s like well I want to send you back home I want to send you with your parents and to me you know like, being on the land, being out there was being saved

Kat Duff: Yeah, yeah, right.

A.S: You were saved if you were out there, you know.

Kat Duff: Right, right.

A.S: And so when he told me that he was going to send me back I felt like I was going to hell.

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: And so I just, I really then I really was upside down after that and so then I moved back you know, he just wanted me to get better you know and I was like … whatever.

Kat Duff: You moved back onto the land?

A.S: No, no with my parents.

Kat Duff: Oh, ok.

A.S: Then I moved out with my uncle.

Kat Duff: Right.

A.S: Then … you know what … I just wanted to move back. Then I thought, wait everything started on the land, like all the pressure and I just felt way better. And I was like I told him I’m never coming back this is just … there’s just too much, too much stress.

Kat Duff: Yeah, too much stress. Uh huh, yeah.

A.S: A lot of pressure.

Kat Duff: Yeah.

A.S: Being good.

Kat Duff: Yeah. Well uh, you know that original letter you got, asking you … What did the letter say?

A.S: Uhm, I don’t remember exactly what the letter said. It was probably something like, you know, like I was … God and I had been talking. We’ve been talking about this. It’s apparent to me that we need some … Father needs some seven virgins to pour out the plagues, like in the Bible.

Kat Duff: Ok! Uh huh.

A.S: And so … ah you know that there were to be virgins and so that was kinda like … and then it was a mean kind of a meaning. Other than that, I don’t know about the letter.

Kat Duff: Ok. Well ah, you know how you having mentioned about starting to talk about consummation and the girls were learning consummations, some of them were, right? So who was wanting to have consummation, do you remember?

A.S: Uhm … I think they were like the older that wasn’t … Bethany…?

Kat Duff: Ok.

A.S: I remember there was a girl that didn’t. She just did not want to. (More talking at the same time.)

Kat Duff: And so did the girls tell Michael that they wanted a consummation?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: And then what happened?

A.S: Uhm … he … he really … ah I’m not sure if he knew what to do about it.

Kat Duff: Yeah, yeah.

A.S: He says he didn’t want it, you know, but if it was what Father wanted then he was going to do it.

Kat Duff: I see … if God wanted him to.

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Uh hum. So ah, did he do the consummation with anyone? 59:07

A.S: (Sounds like she says no, not with any of the virgins)

Kat Duff: Yeah, uh huh.

A.S: But you know, there’s things, there’s things that they would talk about you know, with the seven he would say, you know that what is talked about between the seven is only stays with the seven so when you would go outside of the seven you would know not to be doing that.

Kat Duff: Yeah.

A.S: They knew the seven but they didn’t know like details.

Kat Duff: Uh hum uh hum. Yeah, yeah. Are you still in touch with any of the seven?

A.S: Not really.

Kat Duff: Uh hum.

A.S: Sometimes I don’t see many people out there … or anything I really don’t know people. My sister’s about the only one that I would.

Kat Duff: Uh hum.

A.S: (I cannot understand this response)

Kat Duff: You mentioned that she was one of the seven too.

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: And so, did she do the thing, going to bed with him and everything?

A.S: Yeah, she actually laid, they both actually laid naked.

Kat Duff: Oh, uh hum. Yeah. And your sister still lives out there, huh?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: And uh, does Michael ever have any favorites?

A.S: He says he doesn’t. He says he’s almost out. But the way it seems is it doesn’t seem that way. Seems like he does, like especially like the young girls he used to … I noticed like when I was there you know, like he would have a favorite and single certain ones out, at least it seemed like that. I never said it was…

Kat Duff: But it seemed like it?

A.S: It felt like it.

Kat Duff: Did he ever take any kids to live with him? Any girl?

A.S: No.

Kat Duff: Oh, ok.

A.S: No, he always wanted to be by himself.

Kat Duff: Oh ok, yeah. So is Michael still in touch with you at all?

A.S: No. I wouldn’t talk to him. I won’t talk with him.

Kat Duff: Uh hum.

A.S: He wouldn’t talk to me and I wouldn’t talk with him, so...

Kat Duff: Uh hum. How come he wouldn’t talk to you? Cause of that?

A.S: Ahh … yeah well, probably because I wouldn’t talk to him …

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: So he doesn’t really have anything to say to me either.

Kat Duff: Yeah, yeah uh huh. Ok. Is there anything else? (Not sure exactly what she is asking, seems to be whether there is anything else A.S. wants to discuss in order to help protect her)

A.S: Ah … no just, don’t do ... (cannot understand her answer, and Kat Duff seems to laugh and then they both are laughing) There’s one thing I want to suggest don’t ever … It’s hard.

Kat Duff: Do you have … Can you talk to your boyfriend about it?

A.S: Oh yeah, yeah.

Kat Duff: Good.

A.S: Even though he don’t really … cause he doesn’t know anything … but he’s there and he wants to.

Kat Duff: Yeah.

A.S: Just talk to me, even though I don’t know I’m here, you know.

Kat Duff: Yeah, that’s nice to say.

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: How about your parent? Can you talk to your parents about it?

A.S: Ah … I don’t really like to cause they were out there together. It’s just harder to talk with them …

Kat Duff: Yeah, I can understand. Ok, I think I’m going to see if there are any more questions. 1:03:34 (Kat Duff leaves the room.) 1:05:31 (Kat Duff returns)

Kat Duff: Just a couple clarifying questions. You know the time that you laid with Michael.

A.S: Uh huh.

Kat Duff: And he offered you a blanket in case you were cold.

A.S: Uh huh.

Kat Duff: And then were you underneath the blanket or on top of the blanket?

A.S: Ah … underneath.

Kat Duff: Underneath, ok. And then, ah when he laid down and held you where were you on the blanket?

A.S: Uhm … I was still under the blanket and he was on top.

Kat Duff: He was on top.

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Ok, ok. And then when he kissed your breasts was he, did he come under the blanket or was …?

A.S: Ah … it was just pulled down to the belly.

Kat Duff: Oh I see, I see. Ok, then I get it. That makes more sense.

A.S: Yeah. (She giggles)

Kat Duff: And uhm, when he held you I know you said that he was laying next to you.

A.S: Uh hum.

Kat Duff: And he held you, was it like a close hug or just a casual arm across, or?

A.S: It was pretty close.

Kat Duff: It was pretty close?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Yeah? Like, how would you?

A.S: Uhm … probably … really close.

Kat Duff: Uh hum. Ok. And was it just one hug or more than one hug?

A.S: Ah it was kinda long, like.

Kat Duff: Kinda long … ok. Kinda a long pretty close hug?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Uh huh. And he kissed you on your breasts and he kissed you one time or more than one time on your breasts?

A.S: On the breasts, it was once.

Kat Duff: Ok. And then he kissed you on your face, and I think you said the lips too?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: And uhm was there anything unusual about how he kissed you on the lips?

A.S: Ah … probably … well it wasn’t just like a quick kiss; it was like, probably like you would kiss your husband or your somebody.

Kat Duff: Uh hum.

A.S: A real intimate kiss like …

Kat Duff: Uh hum.

A.S: Nothing with the tongue or anything.

Kat Duff: Uh hum. But just more intimate?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Ok, thanks.

Kat Duff: And ah, you were talking about afterwards, hanging around and getting kind of suicidal and how none of your friends could help you.

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Was there a particular incident that they tried to help you in and couldn’t or was it just general things, suicide?

A.S: Well, like they’d talk to me you know. I wouldn’t really know what they’d say but they’d talk and then they’d try to help me try to put it and my life back.

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: It felt that way …

Kat Duff: Did you ever try to kill yourself?

A.S: Not really.

Kat Duff: Uh hum. Did you … (talking at the same time)

A.S: I came close, I thought of it.

Kat Duff: Yeah. What were you going to do?

A.S: Uh … I was going to hang myself or like I don’t know …

Kat Duff: Ok, and ah I heard something about Willow out there, do you know anything about Willow?

A.S: Yeah, she was mostly … Me and her were really good friends.

Kat Duff: Oh really, oh …

A.S: Yeah. We liked to hang out. She was fun. I think she’s really tall for thirteen.

Kat Duff: Ok.

A.S: She’s probably fourteen by now.

Kat Duff: Ok.

A.S: I’m not quite sure.

Kat Duff: Yeah, yeah..

A.S: She’s really tall and she’s …

Kat Duff: She’s taller than others out there …

A.S: She’s taller than both of her parents.

Kat Duff: Wow, wow yeah. Was she one of the seven?

A.S: Ah … nope. She was younger.

Kat Duff: Was she one of the younger girls that Michael liked?

A.S: Ah … yeah he liked her, but I don’t know if like …

Kat Duff: Was anything special …

A.S: No, not like … that.

Kat Duff: Oh ok.

A.S: Ah you know he treated her like a child really.

Kat Duff: Ok, ok.

A.S: Cause she …

Kat Duff: She was.

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Do you know if he ever laid naked with Willow?

A.S: Now that … ah … I’m not sure that I know, I heard something but I can’t say for sure. There is a possibility.

Kat Duff: Uh hmm. What did you hear?

A.S: Ah … there’s a possibility that I heard, she wanted to.

Kat Duff: Uh hum.

A.S: But I don’t know if she ever did, or if she did or not. I’m not sure.

Kat Duff: Uh hum.

A.S: That part I never … I never really paid any attention you know.

Kat Duff: Yeah.

A.S: I was busy with other stuff.

Kat Duff: Right, right. Was your sister friends with her?

A.S: Uh huh! Yeah.

Kat Duff: Ok.

A.S: She would probably know a lot more than I would.

Kat Duff: Ok.

A.S: (Then she says something about not knowing or not really sure what goes on out there.)

Kat Duff: Do they … I know you mentioned that he was talking about sending you back to your parents and in your mind that was like going to hell.

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Did they teach you about the outside world and what it was like at all?

A.S: Yeah actually they did, they taught about it, they taught that it was really bad you know that there’s a lot of evil influences, everything you know.

Kat Duff: Uh hum. Was there anything about what to do if you might have to be out there?

A.S: Uh … yeah … he guided some of the kids. Yeah he had needs for the kids … he’d tell them you know, what to do, you know.

Kat Duff: What were you supposed to do?

A.S: Ah … ah … well like, for one instance he’d always put out, like if they put you in front of a TV with candy you know …

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: Don’t watch the TV, and leave the candy cause it’s evil.

Kat Duff: Uh huh, uh huh.

A.S: That’s pretty much what I remember but … actually, I just thought of it.

Kat Duff: Yeah yeah, so it was kind of like teaching you not to do things?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Not to let things in?

A.S: Yeah.

Kat Duff: Yeah ok ok.

A.S: And the kids they’d find out you know. (And something about getting sent back.)

Kat Duff: Yeah ok. I’m going to check on my time. Kat Duff leaves the room. 1:13:40

Kat Duff: Just one more question I have to ask. Did you guys go to school out there?

A.S: Uhm … no the schooling out there was not very good.

Kat Duff: Yeah, tell me about it.

A.S: Some of the kids started to here and there.

Kat Duff: Um hum.

A.S: But most of the time I just remember … cause it’s a distraction. It’s a big distraction from God.

Kat Duff: Oh! Because it’s a distraction from God?

A.S: Well like (she says something that makes Kat Duff realize she means Michael)

Kat Duff: You mean Michael?

A.S: Yeah, Michael.

Kat Duff: So he says it’s a distraction.

A.S: Yeah, it’s a distraction. The kids think it’s a distraction too.

Kat Duff: Ok.

A.S: And so …

Kat Duff: Ok. So not much with school happens out there?

A.S: No, like my parents, me and my sister did actually go to school, because they...

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: Because that was one thing that we knew they wanted us to do.

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: That was one thing that they asked us to do.

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: And they were pretty serious and like, it’s too much of a distraction you know.

Kat Duff: Uh hum.

A.S: We can’t, we’re not going to do it anymore.

Kat Duff: Uh hum.

A.S: And so … of course, we can’t we’re not going to do it, and you know they can’t make us.

Kat Duff: Yeah, yeah.

A.S: And so …. But there was one point though where they had all the children or most of them, some were too young, kinda hard for them and they had their parents teach them. But we had like this school room, and the older girls, like the teenagers would help us. They’d try to teach you know at a certain time. And we did that for a couple months, and you’d pay attention and do your work. That was fun.

Kat Duff: Uh huh.

A.S: That was like the only real schooling that I can remember.

Kat Duff: Yeah, yeah.

A.S: And some people needed it, everybody needs it but …

Kat Duff: That’s true. Well thank you very very much for coming here and explaining these things to me. I understand a lot.

1:16:35 ends A.S. interview.

Back to Transcripts menu

To return to the trial "transcripts menu," click the "Trial" tab at the top of this page.