Prosecution direct - expert, Dr. Dinsmore
Dr. Elizabeth Dinsmore Prosecution Witness - direct questioning by Tomas Benevidez
Judge Baca: Are we ready for the next witness?
Tomas Benevidez: Yes, your Honor the State would call Dr. Elizabeth Dinsmore.
Judge Baca: Ok, Dr. Elizabeth Dinsmore. Dr. Dinsmore is sworn in.
Judge Baca: You may proceed.
Tomas Benevidez: Thank you, your Honor. Dr. Dinsmore can you please state your full name for the Court and spell your last name for the Recorder.
Dr. Dinsmore: Dr. Elizabeth Dinsmore. D - I - N -S - M - O - R -E.
Tomas Benevidez: Thank you. What is your occupation?
Dr. Dinsmore: I’m a clinical and forensic psychologist in private practice.
Tomas Benevidez: And are you licensed in the State of New Mexico?
Dr. Dinsmore: Yes I am.
Tomas Benevidez: How long have you held that license?
Dr. Dinsmore: Since May of nineteen seventy-eight.
Tomas Benevidez: Do you hold any licenses in any other states?
Dr. Dinsmore: No.
Tomas Benevidez: What college did you attend?
Dr. Dinsmore: I have a Doctorate in Clinical Psychology from The City University of New York in nineteen seventy-six.
Tomas Benevidez: What was your undergraduate degree in?
Dr. Dinsmore: I graduated with honors in History and a Minor in African Studies from Columbia University and a Masters Degree in Remedial Reading and Psychology of School Subjects from Teacher’s College Columbia.
Tomas Benevidez: Do Psychologists do internships?
Dr. Dinsmore: Yes, we have three years of course work, a fourth year internship, and then a doctoral thesis and a one year post internship is required, that means supervised full time experience in an APA accredited hospital or clinic. That’s the requirement to sit for the license in most states.
Tomas Benevidez: Where did you do your internship at?
Dr. Dinsmore: At the Jewish Board of Children and Family Services in New York City.
Tomas Benevidez: And that was for one year?
Dr. Dinsmore: That was the fourth year of the clinical program.
Tomas Benevidez: And then you did some post internship, where did you do that?
Dr. Dinsmore: At Kingsboro Psychiatric Centers which was in Brooklyn, New York. I worked for two years, one Pre and one Post Doctoral. It was an outpatient adult clinic of the state hospital.
Tomas Benevidez: Thank you. Since that time, how long have you practiced?
Dr. Dinsmore: I’ve been in practice here since May of nineteen seventy-eight and I had one sabbatical year in nineteen eighty-nine, ninety.
Tomas Benevidez: And during, how many years was that?
Dr. Dinsmore: I think I’m in my thirtieth year of private practice.
Tomas Benevidez: In those thirty years have you practiced adolescent or child psychology?
Dr. Dinsmore: Yes, I’ve always had about one third to two thirds of clients have been children or adolescents.
Tomas Benevidez: And do you hold and expert in any psychological practice?
Dr. Dinsmore: Do I …
Tomas Benevidez: Are you an expert in …
Dr. Dinsmore: Well I …
Tomas Benevidez: I’m sorry let me rephrase the question. Do you have an emphasis in your practice? Any emphasis?
Dr. Dinsmore: I’ve developed an expertise in Child Abuse and Neglect and also an area of expertise’s with very young children under the age of five.
Tomas Benevidez: Have you published any writings?
Dr. Dinsmore: I’m the invited author of the Chapter on Children for the District Judges Bench Book that’s published by UNN Law School the Institute of Public Law.
Tomas Benevidez: And what is the subject of that Bench Book?
Dr. Dinsmore: It’s the Judge’s Bench book in abuse and neglect proceedings.
Tomas Benevidez: thank you. Do you have any other publications?
Dr. Dinsmore: No.
Tomas Benevidez: Describe your practice.
Dr. Dinsmore: Well, in some ways, practicing in Taos all these years has been like a small time doctor in that I saw a wide variety of people living in a rural area. I also had the opportunity to do a lot of forensic work early on, because I was the only psychologist here for about ten years and was able to consult with a variety of local agencies and do evaluations and testing for them. In two thousand five, I expanded my forensic practice to Albuquerque and I use an office there on a case by case basis.
Tomas Benevidez: Do you do psychotherapy?
Dr. Dinsmore: I do psychotherapy.
Tomas Benevidez: What is that?
Dr. Dinsmore: Helping people of all ages with various kinds of emotional and mental and social problems.
Tomas Benevidez: Do you do consultations?
Dr. Dinsmore: I do consultations.
Tomas Benevidez: Do you do evaluations?
Dr. Dinsmore: I do a variety of evaluations.
Tomas Benevidez: What type of evaluations?
Dr. Dinsmore: Any kind of new client generally involves some kind of an evaluation of their needs. For children, it’s often an evaluation of their histories and whatever problems they’re having. I also do a variety of forensic evaluations which involve both civil and criminal cases.
Tomas Benevidez: What is a forensic evaluation?
Dr. Dinsmore: It’s an evaluation to provide the Court with information that they might not otherwise have, that assists the judge and or the jury in making a determination. And so it may involve evaluating the mental state at the time a criminal offense was committed, an evaluation of dangerousness or violence, child custody evaluations, various kinds of civil issues, like the ability to write your own will, personal injury cases, where you evaluate whether someone has been harmed by some negligence or a crime against them.
Tomas Benevidez: And sexual abuse cases, criminal sexual abuse or criminal sexual contact cases?
Dr. Dinsmore: Yes.
Tomas Benevidez: Your honor, I’d like to approach the witness.
Judge Baca: Alright, do you have...? Is that marked?
Tomas Benevidez: Yes, your Honor. I’m going to mark it the State’s Exhibit number two. Dr. Dinsmore can you describe what that is?
Dr. Dinsmore: This is my resume.
Tomas Benevidez: Ok. And we’ve just been going over your experience and your education and that’s part of your resume is that correct?
Dr. Dinsmore: Yes.
Tomas Benevidez: Thank you. You said you have some studies in, or you have training in the area of child abuse and neglect. Did you have occasion to in this case to see L.S. and A.S.?
Dr. Dinsmore: Yes, I did.
Tomas Benevidez: And did you prepare a report?
Dr. Dinsmore: I did.
Tomas Benevidez: Have you testified in Court before?
Dr. Dinsmore: Yes I have.
Tomas Benevidez: How many times?
Dr. Dinsmore: Probably five hundred.
Tomas Benevidez: And of those five hundred, how many were criminal cases?
Dr. Dinsmore: I haven’t kept a record from the very beginning, but in the last ten years I would say about half of my testimony has been in criminal cases.
Tomas Benevidez: Ok. And of that testimony, about two hundred fifty, how many were for the Prosecution or the State?
Dr. Dinsmore: Oh, it’s approximately equal.
Tomas Benevidez: Ok, so fifty percent for the State fifty percent for Defense?
Dr. Dinsmore: Yes.
Tomas Benevidez: Thank you. Your Honor at this time I would like to qualify Dr. Elizabeth Dinsmore as an Expert in Child Psychology.
Judge Baca: Alright. Any objection?
Ms. Montoya: No, your Honor.
Judge Baca: She is qualified as an expert witness in Child, Clinical and Forensic Psychology.
Tomas Benevidez: And your Honor, I would also like to enter her resume as State’s Exhibit Number two.
Judge Baca: Alright. Any objections?
Ms. Montoya: Yes, your Honor, It’s accumulative and duplicative she’s already testified all about her background.
Judge Baca: I agree. I don’t think that we need the resume. It will not be admitted. I think she stated it perfectly clearly on the record what her qualifications are.
Tomas Benevidez: Thank you, your Honor. Can you tell the Court how you went about evaluating both A.S. and L.S.?
Dr. Dinsmore: Yes, I was asked to evaluate their, basically, their psychological status, and normally the way I do that is to obtain background information, talk to the parents. Depending on the referral source, review the background information and then meet with the child, interview the child about his or her own history and the issue that I’m evaluating and perform a variety of tests.
Basically it’s a battery of tests that kinda looks at a person from a lot of different angles, so I try to understand how their intellectual functioning is, whether they have any kinds of learning disabilities or brain injury from accidents that could have effect functioning, their memory, their reasoning, their judgment, their interests. Then there are tests of personality and these differ in the kind of tests that’s given. There are tests that we call self report where people answer …
Judge Baca: Would you please speak up a little bit.
Dr. Dinsmore: Yes. I’m sorry. There are self reports where people answer questions about themselves so that’s their own perspective of themselves. Then there are tests that kind of probe deeper levels of the person, areas that they may not be aware of themselves, and those kinds of personality tests allow us to understand how a person sees the world, what defenses they use to deal with anxiety, what issues are important to them, what issues are problems for them and that’s about what comprises the basic kind of battery of tests.
Then sometimes I speak with other people who know the person. I always try to speak parents when children are involved because parents can provide very important background developmental history. And parents also have their own perspective on how the child has been going along their whole life and how they’re coping with whatever the referral reason is.
I always ask for school records and pediatric records for children. In this case those were not available.
Tomas Benevidez: What do you mean they weren’t available?
Dr. Dinsmore: Uhm …
Tomas Benevidez: Before you answer that, let me ask a few more questions.
Ms. Montoya: Could you speak further into the microphone please? (Referring to Dr. Dinsmore)
Dr. Dinsmore: There’s no way to turn this up, I guess, right?
Tomas Benevidez: If you get a little closer to the microphone, it’ll pick your voice up.
Dr. Dinsmore: Alright.
Tomas Benevidez: You tend to be soft spoken, Dr. Dinsmore, as do I, so I’ll try to speak up too.
Dr. Dinsmore: Alright.
Tomas Benevidez: Who were you referred by, to do this forensic evaluation or these forensic evaluations?
Dr. Dinsmore: You asked me to evaluate the girls.
Tomas Benevidez: And what was the purpose of this forensic evaluation for L.S. and A.S.?
Dr. Dinsmore: You wanted to understand what their psychological and emotional status was and to see if I could determine what effect, if any, the alleged events that we’re trying here may have had on them.
Tomas Benevidez: Thank you. What were the dates and lengths of time that you met with A.S. and L.S.?
Dr. Dinsmore: I met briefly with A.S.
Tomas Benevidez: Uhm…
Dr. Dinsmore: I’m sorry.
Tomas Benevidez: Dr. Dinsmore, do you have an independent recollection regarding when you met with them?
Dr. Dinsmore: I like to refer to my report just to make sure I get it right.
Tomas Benevidez: Ok.
Dr. Dinsmore: I don’t have everything in memory.
Tomas Benevidez: But, if you don’t have an independent recollection, do you need to refresh your memory to look at that?
Dr. Dinsmore: Yes.
Judge Baca:
Dr. Dinsmore: Alright, thank you. I met briefly with A.S., I mean with L.S. and her parents on the twenty fourth of October of this year, which was a Friday and I met the following Monday, A.S., who was accompanied by your office’s victim advocate.
Tomas Benevidez: Can you describe your meeting with L.S. You met with L.S. first?
Dr. Dinsmore: Yes. I met with her and her parents and reviewed my informed consent form which described the limits of confidentiality of the evaluation and describes something of what we’ll do during the evaluation. And after that, she said she did not want to proceed with the evaluation, so I didn’t do anything further with her.
Tomas Benevidez: What was her demeanor like?
Dr. Dinsmore: She seemed very very confident and happy. I felt she was very happy to tell me that she did not intend to undergo an evaluation.
Tomas Benevidez: Did she do anything else?
Dr. Dinsmore: Uhm... at the meeting?
Tomas Benevidez: Yes. Did you have any discussions with her?
Dr. Dinsmore: No. I didn’t talk with her further.
Tomas Benevidez: Ok. Did you have any other information? Before we go there, have you finished your question regarding medical records? Did you review medical records of either of the girls?
Dr. Dinsmore: There were no pediatric records available and no school records available, because she hadn’t seen a doctor or attended school.
Tomas Benevidez: What other information did you have on L.S?
Dr. Dinsmore: I had quite a variety of information on L.S.. I had a letter she wrote to you at the end of October, October twenty-seventh of this year. I had an interview of her by Sarah Montoya, the Defense Attorney on September first of this year. I had the safe room interview, both the tape and the transcript of the safe room interview by Kat Duff on April twenty third of this year. I had her...
Tomas Benevidez: Your Honor, could we ask that Ms. Montoya either change chairs or get some oil in her chair. It’s distracting cause it keeps squeaking.
Judge Baca: (Chuckles)
Ms. Montoya: It’s distracting to me too your Honor.
Tomas Benevidez: (Big laugh)
Judge Baca: Well, let’s move down one chair, I guess.
Ms. Montoya: We’ve tried and they’re not any better.
Judge Baca: They’re the best we’ve got. Alright. You may proceed.
Dr. Dinsmore: I had the hand written diary by L.S., and some printed email correspondence between L.S. and Wayne Bent, between the dates of January thirteenth and April first of zero eight.
Tomas Benevidez: Were you also present when L.S. testified?
Dr. Dinsmore: Yes, I was.
Tomas Benevidez: Have you formed any impressions?
Dr. Dinsmore: Yes, I have.
Tomas Benevidez: Based on those writings, the brief meeting, the other sources of material …
Dr. Dinsmore: Yes.
Tomas Benevidez: And the testimony today?
Dr. Dinsmore: Yes.
Tomas Benevidez: Is that adequate information for you to make an informed impressions?
Dr. Dinsmore: Yes.
Tomas Benevidez: And what are those impressions?
Dr. Dinsmore: Well, the fact that there’s no school and pediatric records, I think underscores the isolation that she’s grown up in. She has grown up in a small community, but I think the number of influences that she’s had from the outside that community are very limited compared to most American children.
Tomas Benevidez: Were you aware that she had internet access?
Dr. Dinsmore: Yes. But everything I have learned about the community suggests that the internet access is restricted to the goals of the community and the church.
Tomas Benevidez: What other impressions or opinions have you garnered from this information?
Dr. Dinsmore: She... in many ways, she’s a very young adolescent in her demeanor and her emotional state. And she said herself that she’s in love with Wayne Bent. I felt she was enthralled to him. Her writings make it clear that she’s really entirely devoted to him and it seems that she wants to be first wife, is the way I see it. She wants to be his favorite. And that she has that kind of quality of idealism of him that sees no fault and no flaw. Her whole life seems focused on him.
Tomas Benevidez: Is adolescence a critical or sensitive period for a young woman of her age?
Dr. Dinsmore: Yes, it’s a time, the brain is still not completely mature and there is recent research that adolescents are greater risk takers and have a much reduced sense of consequences, so they tend to do rather extreme things and have very extreme emotions. So she’s..., a child that age, is really not in the position of making a reasoned kind of decision about major kinds of life issues.
Tomas Benevidez: Thank you. Did you form any impressions regarding the girl’s lying naked with the defendant?
Judge Baca: Let me stop you there. Please approach.
Sidebar
Tomas Benevidez: Did you form any idealizations of Wayne Bent and his treatment or the girl’s experiences?
Ms. Montoya: Objection.
Dr. Dinsmore: I...
Judge Baca: Before you answer, there’s an objection. What is the objection?
Ms. Montoya: Speculation.
Judge Baca: You might want to develop a further foundation.
Tomas Benevidez: What was L.S.’s experience... did you form any opinion on the experience L.S. had, based on the writings?
Ms. Montoya: Objection.
Judge Baca: Ok. What is the objection?
Ms. Montoya: May we approach.
Judge Baca: Yes.
Sidebar
Judge Baca overrules the objection on the basis that the State rephrase the question.
Tomas Benevidez: Dr. Dinsmore, based on L.S.’s experience s and her writing, what is her relationship with the defendant Wayne Bent?
Dr. Dinsmore: She seems to be enamored of him.
Tomas Benevidez: What is your overall impression of L.S.?
Ms. Montoya: Objection, foundation.
Judge Baca: I’m sorry. Foundation. What is your response?
Tomas Benevidez: Your Honor, what I’m asking is Dr. Dinsmore has evaluated all the materials of L.S., as well as her experience. I’m asking what her overall impression was.
Judge Baca: The basis for her opinion?
Tomas Benevidez: Yes.
Judge Baca: Ok. I think that’s appropriate. You may ask it.
Dr. Dinsmore: Today, I saw her as more, young adolescent than I had imagined. She seems, as I said, enthralled to Mr. Bent. She seems to idealize him. She seems to have no insight into her relationship with him and ways that she may have been influenced by him.
What troubles me most is that behind his message is the threat of either being saved or going to hell. And I think that plays a very strong role for both of these girls. And L.S. may emphasize the idealized side of that, but I think the punitive aspect that she talks about in her concept of God is also a reflection of who Wayne Bent has been for her all her life, as a punitive, critical, denying figure.
I’m also concerned that these girls seem to have been possibly groomed by him in the way that a sexual predator grooms children and that is developing their trust in him by being kind and loving and mild and gentle, and gradually increasing that sense of trust, until he’s able to have sexual relations with them. So I feel that that’s part of the picture here.
Tomas Benevidez: Thank you. Did you evaluate A.S.?
Dr. Dinsmore: I did. I evaluated her the following Monday.
Tomas Benevidez: Can you describe how long you met with her and what you went through for that evaluation?
Dr. Dinsmore: A.S. was there all day between nine and six I think, with a lunch break. I did the battery of tests that I described to you earlier and also reviewed a number of sources of information. Her parents didn’t come back on the Monday, because they’d taken off the day to come on Friday and it’s about a three and a half hour drive, one way. So I talked with them by phone several days later. With A.S., I administered interviews, I administered a number of tests. I don’t know if you’d like me to describe them.
Tomas Benevidez: Just describe them briefly.
Dr. Dinsmore: Alright.
Tomas Benevidez: And their purpose.
Dr. Dinsmore: The Bender Visual Motor Gestalt Test is a screen for any kind of neurological problems. I gave two personality inventories. One is more suitable for adolescents and adolescents respond very well to it. So I gave that and also one that is made for adults. And A.S., at eighteen, was eligible for both of those. I gave two of them also as a kind of check to make sure she was being consistent in her responses. Those are the self reports. I administered the Rohr Shocking Blot Test, which is a test of personality functioning. It involves ink blots, as some of you may have seen that in the movies or on TV.
Ms. Montoya: Again you Honor, could you have her turn toward the microphone?
Dr. Dinsmore: I’m sorry.
Judge Baca: Ok.
Dr. Dinsmore: I administered the...
Judge Baca: Could we take a break for one second here.
Judge comments to a lady in the back who is standing up.
Alright.
Dr. Dinsmore: I administered The Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale form Three, which is a test of various kinds of cognitive abilities and skills and the Wide Range Achievement Tests, Third Addition, which is just a brief measure of achievement in reading, word recognition, spelling and arithmetic.
Tomas Benevidez: What do those tests show?
Dr. Dinsmore: The main things that the tests showed was that A.S. lags in her development, compared to the normal kind of child. It suggests the kind of uneven development that I would have expected for somebody, who didn’t attend, didn’t have formal schooling and was in a fairly isolated life style.
She showed a lot of social difficulties, social gaps in social skills, which she verbalized as well, saying it’s one of the things that makes her feel uncomfortable, that she is so out of touch with her peers, now that she’s meeting more peers in the outside world.
The other major finding was that she’s very susceptible to depression and to suicidal thinking and, of course, this is of concern in any teen. Her cognitive functioning, she’s functioning in the low average range on the Wechsler and basically showed kind of an immaturity in her developmental level and unevenness again in her intellectual skills. So, I don’t know if that’s an underestimation of her real potential, but I would think that it’s been underestimated, or somewhat lowered, by her lack of formal schooling and restricted life style.
In her personality development, also she shows a very narrow, kind of a narrowed view of experience. She doesn’t do very well; she doesn’t do well at all with complexity, with ambiguity. She has a very kind of narrow and rigid way of looking at things. She’s very perfectionistic and concerned about doing right and having the right answer.
The other finding was that her self confidence was very low. And I think you saw that on the stand today, where she found it very hard to articulate her thoughts. Clearly, she seemed to feel... just didn’t have the confidence to express what she was feeling and thinking. And generally her presentation in the evaluation was again very narrow and constricted feeling... expression of feeling and emotion. So I think that kind of summarizes.
Tomas Benevidez: Thank you. As to both the girls' testimony and their behavior, how do you explain the behavior between A.S. and L.S., coming from the same household and one feeling angry and the other one feeling love?
Dr. Dinsmore: Well, there are always... We’re all unique and everyone knows that babies temperaments from day one. So there may be a temperamental difference, but also A.S. told me that she felt she was not one of the favorites and that others of the virgins were... got more attention, more positive attention from Mr. Bent, that he would touch them more, he would laugh with them and he would wave goodbye when they went. And she felt she didn’t get as much of that attention.
In the descriptions of what happened, it does seem that she was more uncomfortable with the lying naked with Mr. Bent and probably more awkward and troubled by it, and so it’s possible that L.S. with her history of, earlier history of a molestation was somehow more needy and more vulnerable to his search for virgins and so that he found her more receptive to his overtures.
Tomas Benevidez: Did you arrive at anymore impressions?
Dr. Dinsmore: Let me just refresh... About how the girls are different is that what you’re asking?
Tomas Benevidez: Yes.
Dr. Dinsmore: Well, I think it’s related to what I was just saying about A.S. feeling she was not as favored as some of the other girls. Her becoming suicidal, I think is partly related to that and she said that she went to talk to Mr. Bent about feeling suicidal and he basically told her to go home, let her parents deal with it.
I was struck listening to the testimony of how L.S. described him as being so kind and so gentle, when she went to lie naked with him. Asking her if she was sure she really wanted to do this. And yet when A.S. felt suicidal, he had no response to it at all, except to reject her.
I think A.S.'s suicidal feelings also express her... the anger that she turned against herself. That reflects the kind of critical punishing kind of atmosphere that she and other members of the church experience. She told me, for example, that she never knew what was right and what was wrong, because Mr. Bent would change on his, apparently on his own whim. So she said, "One day he went out walking and people followed and went walking with him and he praised them for walking with him. And then the next time they went out walking and people went walking with him..."
Ms. Montoya: Objection.
Judge Baca: I’m sorry.
Ms. Montoya: Hearsay.
Judge Baca: Hearsay.
Tomas Benevidez: Your Honor, hearsay is allowed in expert testimony.
Judge Baca: Experts can rely on hearsay.
Ms. Montoya: Your Honor, she’s putting forth the statement, but the truth of the matter is certed Tomas Benevidez: She’s describing an experience that she had.
Ms. Montoya: No, your Honor, she’s describing what someone else told her occurred.
Judge Baca: I think that she’s describing the basis for her opinions as to this child feeling that
she was neglected by Mr. Bent. I think that’s appropriate. Objection’s overruled. You may proceed.
Dr. Dinsmore: She called it being whammed by him, because she said, "The next time he went out walking
and people walked along with him, he turned on them and said, 'What are you doing why are you walking with me?'" And so,
this kind of effort to be perfect and good and get, win his approval, was never consistent. And I think, and for all of us
that kind of frustration leads to anger and it seems with A.S. that she tends to turn that anger back on herself and blame
herself.
Tomas Benevidez: Are adolescents more vulnerable than adults to influence?
Dr. Dinsmore: Yes. Adolescents seem to not understand that they’re going to die. I think that’s one of
the bases for it. And so, they don’t really see the full extent of the future and what’s possible and it makes them
wonderfully open to things, but also perhaps not having all of the judgment that might be helpful in making decisions.
Tomas Benevidez: Did you form any opinion on whether they were influenced by anyone? Were there
influences in their life?
Dr. Dinsmore: I feel the whole community...
Ms. Montoya: Objection. Relevance?
Judge Baca: Why don’t you approach?
Sidebar
Judge Baca: The objection’s overruled.
Tomas Benevidez: Dr. Dinsmore, did you form any impressions on any exertion of authority over the girls,
both L.S. and A.S.?
Dr. Dinsmore: Ah yes. My impression is that the whole community is very unitary, in they tend to agree
on the way life should be lived, even though it’s inconsistent in the details and seems to be on Mr. Bent’s whim. But the
basic notion of a community that’s together and isolated from the outside world, which is seen as bad and to be rejected, I
think is a major influence on these girls. The lack of formal education, the lack of exposure to, which would give them
exposure to teachers, other adults, a variety of ideas outside of their community and exposure to medical care, which
would also give them exposure to other adults, helping adults, and kind of a view from outside of how these girls are
developing.
I think it all demonstrates the system they live under or lived under. I became very confused myself with the changes
in meaning that went on between who’s God, who’s man, who’s God...
(pause to check notes)
I became very confused about whether in talk about hearing words from Father, whether Wayne was the person
who received that information or was, in fact, Father or was, in fact, God. And the confusion between what consummations
means, whether it means actual sexual intercourse or some kind of spiritual event. And where the locus of responsibility
is. I find it’s an odd concept of authority, when Mr. Bent seems to be in charge and yet every time there’s a question
of who’s responsible for this, somehow he’s not responsible. I found that quite confusing, just trying to understand these
girls’ experience.
Tomas Benevidez: Thank you Dr. Dinsmore.
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